Welcome to the Geography Consultation Blog

Posted by Nick Stripe on November 21st 2006

This consultation is a first for ONS as we play our part in developing the concept of 'e-democracy'.  I am delighted that our consultation has been selected for inclusion and thank you for your interest in investigating this far.

The topic of local statistical geographies, for the Census, for Neighbourhood Statistics and for data analysis in general, is one that has generated significant interest and comment in the four years that I have been part of it.  Many times I have wished that I could get all of you with dramatically conflicting views together in the same room.  This blog gives us an opportunity to start to make that happen.  I hope that the following 12 weeks will allow us to see some real benefits in opening up the debate in this way to everyone's desktop.

I will try to publish your comments as quickly as I can, and will endeavour to reply to any questions you have.  Throughout the consultation period I will be posting new items, so do please bookmark this site and return to it over the next few weeks.  Finally, please also take the time to respond to the survey that forms part of this consultation.  The survey can also be accessed (and returned to) via the link on the navigation bar at the top of this page.  The questions and a template for return can also be found in the consultation document available to download from this site too.

National Park Boundaries

Posted by Rachel (not verified) on 22/01/2007 - 16:37

As a National Park Authority straddling 9 Unitary Authorities, the analysis of Census Data has historically created headaches for our Development Plan team.

To date the Census has not recognised the National Park Authority as a "Local Authority". The result being that Authority wide data is not relevant to the National Park area.

Further headaches ensue with OA's which are drawn to Local Authority Areas, as we have a number communities and settlements which fall accross the Local Authority Administrative boundary.

Responses to previous consultations on the Census have drawn a blank on the grounds of problems with disclosure if smaller output areas were drawn for the areas within the National Park.

Do National Statistics have any new answers this time around?

If the output areas can't be fixed to meet our needs, are there any other solutions you, or any weblog readers can suggest?

Bearing in mind that we are a small team, in a small authority which does not have a dedicated statistics resource.

National Park Boundaries

Posted by Justin Martin (not verified) on 29/01/2007 - 14:52

Hi Rachel

With regard to your final question all I can suggest is that you allocate COA population weighted centroids to National Park boundaries using GIS. Alternatively, if you have access to OS Address Point you could use this to work out which COAs prodominently fall within the NP boundaries (but this may take more time) again you would need a GIS to do this.

Hope this helps?

Profiling from Voluntary and Community Sector (VCS) Perspectives

Posted by Dr C Hursey (not verified) on 18/12/2006 - 14:27

I have been involved with the Audit Commission Area Profiles work, in particular the VCS pilots, and trying to profile community needs, especially rural, over a much longer time period.
It is a constant frustration that data and maps are often not available for civil parish level, with flexibility to be aggregated in other combinations to reflect not only geographical communities but communities of interest, policy, strategy, etc.
With the focus on generally 'evidencing' the sector and its needs to meet the demands of politicians, authorities and funders, it is critical that various types of data, including that produced locally (eg via parish plans, appraisals, feasibility studies etc) can relate to census and other reports. This also requires much more support to groups to access or acquire the software and expertise to do this and overcome their exclusion from the process (perhaps a separate but relevant debate).
I would also like to see more of the geographies set up to enable comparison on the flow of resources to different areas (eg central and local government target areas)and to allow inputting on features not covered by the census etc: for example,more nuanced data on services, facilities and activities - such as access to community buildings, distance from citizens advice or volunteer bureau,presence of specialist support to BME groups, etc.
This has been happening in various 'developing' countries for years, using GIS ...we seem to be a long way behind.

City Regions

Posted by Anonymous (not verified) on 18/12/2006 - 13:28

Perhaps with the city-Region agenda becoming established we could have new data at City-Region Level?

Wards to be phased out

Posted by JohnB (not verified) on 30/11/2006 - 18:18

Primary Care Trusts have been increased in average size from about 120k to 500k populations. Public health departments will thus look at far larger populations and anything that decreases the ability to drill down will be seen as a negative move.
I would still like data to be available by political Wards.

JohnB

data at ward level

Posted by MikeA (not verified) on 05/01/2007 - 16:15

I still get asked for EDiv data more than any other (except local authority), so I would still like to see it produced by ward, please.

wards phased out

Posted by Analyst (not verified) on 06/12/2006 - 11:33

Out of interest what do you use ward data for? Do you find that the impact of boundary changes makes it hard to look at change over time?

Use of ward based geog

Posted by Steven Ward (not verified) on 09/02/2007 - 14:45

For those working in local authorities and PCTs, wards will never go away as long as local councillors are elected to represent them!

Wards carry on being important because the people within them matter to the councillors. Unless people are elected to represent MSOAs, then MSOAs won't replace wards.

Changes in wards over time do create problems for analysis, but at a local level you just have to find ways round that - being proactive and trying to influence those changing their wards to do so in OA sized "chunks" helps. Statistics for "standard" wards were helpful too.

Wards Phased out

Posted by Roy Beiley (not verified) on 30/01/2007 - 10:09

Wards are created in order to provide a framework for lcoal democratic purposes. They were then used traditionally as the basis for compliling "local" statistics sub-Borough/District level.


ONS promised us more reliable and comparative data at neighbourhood level through the introduction of MLSOAs and LLSOA's. In Great Yarmouth, as an NRF receiving area, we were persuaded to change all our original baseline data in the Local Neighbourhood Renewal Strategy from Ward level to the new SOA geography. Where data is available at LLSOA level it is much more useful in that it can be used for a very small "hotspot" or else aggregated up to MLSOA which, in our area, corresponds in most cases to the 2003 Ward Boundaries.


We rarely use ward data anymore other than when it is not available at SOA level.

OAs defined by MasterMap features

Posted by Justin Martin (not verified) on 30/11/2006 - 17:28

Hi Nick

I'd be really keen for ONS to take forward the proposal to look in more detail at relating OAs boundaries to MasterMap features. I think this would really introduce a more coherent heirarchy of geographies right down to individual features/TOIDs. It would be a shame if licencing issues got in the way of this opportunity to join up!

Best wishes

Justin

OAs defined by MasterMap features

Posted by Nick Stripe on 01/12/2006 - 14:53

Hi Justin. Thanks for your comment. I'll probably do a post on this topic later in the consultation.

Migration/Workplace Data

Posted by SDC (not verified) on 29/11/2006 - 15:23

The impact of disclosure control on the migration/journey to work data at OA level has been severe. The small flow count between OAs has caused a lot of SDC treatment. Please consider a better way of doing this. Release flows at SOA level? Double geography - use OAs/SOAs at residential/origin end and use business OAs/SOAs at workplace/destination end?

Overlapping geographies

Posted by SDC (not verified) on 29/11/2006 - 15:18

I support the creation of a separate business OA geography. These should be based on a minimum number of employees and busineses within them (from 2001 Census?). They would not lead to disclosure issues because they would represent a different population - NOT residential but workplace or daytime. The problems with 2001 Census has been the failure to provide industry of employment data on workplace population at geographies less than ward AND the large workplace populations and segmented counts for some city centre/urban residential OAs.

Business OAs

Posted by Nick Stripe on 29/11/2006 - 15:55

Thanks for these comments. The question of whether to have a separate business OA geography could be a topic for debate on its own. I'll do a post on it later in the consultation.

Business OAs

Posted by Hugh Neffendorf (not verified) on 30/01/2007 - 19:37

There is a disclosure issue around business (industry) counts - risk of giving info about individual firms. But I have seen many applications where some sub-OA business splits would be very useful, just giving numbers of employees in smaller areas, perhaps full and part time, so that large city centre OAs could be disaggregated and analysed for more local business activity.

zero population OAs

Posted by SDC (not verified) on 29/11/2006 - 15:13

I would welcome these. When displaying/segmenting by population density, a "community"/OA area can look to have a false low population density just because some area of wilderness or an industrial estate has been "abitarily" included with it. If the wilderness had been put somewhere else, the picture/analysis would be different.

Zero population OAs

Posted by Nick Stripe on 29/11/2006 - 15:58

As above, thanks again. I may do a post on this topic later in the consultation.

Zero population OAs

Posted by Keith Aungiers (not verified) on 15/12/2006 - 16:08

This may well be a good solution for both rural and urban tracts of land where existing OAs contain only very small populations in one corner. An example would be the OA covering most of the town moor (an extensive area of open land) near Newcastle upon Tyne city centre, an otherwise densely populated area. In defining its own 'neighbourhood' areas Newcastle city council sought to exclude such areas because of the skewing effect in terms of such things as population or household density etc. See OA 00CJFR0020. The difficulty here would be that creating zero population OAs within the existing OA geography layer would effect stability of geography. They may therefore be better as an overlay consistent with the underlying OA layer.

I use the OAs alot, because

Posted by Anonymous (not verified) on 29/11/2006 - 10:43

I use the OAs alot, because I need to get an understanding of where affluence and education levels are highest in a city and it's hinterland. SOA just won't be detailed enough. I don't mind you changing the methodology per se, but as I use a very simple mapping prgramme linked to postcodes, the data must be easily and meaningfully convertable into that format. Please ensure that the detailed analysis is preserved too.

Thanks

MSOA vs wards

Posted by Julian Flowers (not verified) on 28/11/2006 - 20:57

What factors are taken into consideration in generating MSOAs from LSOAs? - we are particularly interested in the effects of the choice of small area on the relationship between deprivation andhealth outcomes

Deprivation by a variety of small areas

Posted by Paul Norman (not verified) on 29/11/2006 - 19:14

Hi Julian, hope all going well for you!

I am in the process of building flexible deprivation measures for 1991 and 2001 by the 2001 geographies. You can build up from OAs to whatever geography you want and have comparable deprivation scores for 1991 and 2001 to see how change over time affects health outcomes.

I also will have mortality for the 1990s & LLTI for 1991 converted to 2001 OAs to look at health-deprivation relationship changes over time.

Nick, I started filling out your survey but got bored part way through!!

Best wishes

Paul

Survey

Posted by Nick Stripe on 30/11/2006 - 09:44

Hi Paul. Thanks for starting the survey. I'd encourage you to go back to it if you get a few minutes - you can just leave out the questions that bore you :-), although obviously I'd like to know what you think. Your views are important.

Creating SOAs

Posted by Nick Stripe on 29/11/2006 - 14:59

MSOAs are groups of LSOAs constrained to local authority boundaries. As with OAs and LSOAs they were initially created by an iterative zoning algorithm which took into account measures of population size (and the number of households), mutual proximity, and housing homogeneity (in terms of tenure and type). Factors relating to housing homogeneity were less influential at the MSOA scale. Population size was the dominant design criteria.

Unlike OAs and LSOAs there was a second stage to the creation of MSOAs: local authorities and their partners were invited to propose changes to the original constitutions to potentially enable the creation of areas that better met local needs. This led to a slightly looser population distribution across the country than the automated solution had resulted in, although all MSOAs had a population greater than 5,000 and the most were less than 10,000. The mean size was 7,200.